Edward and Jacob

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[TOPAZ]

Well Im not really sure were to post this so I thought here would be the best place. If its not then, sorry. 
You know I was thinking about the whole Edward vs. Jacob thing and I was thinking about how so many Team Edwards think how underhanded (or in my case obnoxious) Jacob was in Eclipse. It made me wonder why that is.
Is it because he was a wolf by then? I mean he didnt seem to be like that until he changed.
Or is it because he was being compared to Edward in our heads the whole time?
So if he was being compared to Edward then why did he come up so lacking to Team Edward? I dont think Im explaining this right!! Please bear with me.
What Im trying to get at is do you think that Jacob was just the way he was because he is a modern man? He was born and raised (fictionally of course) along with most of us twilight fans. And Ive got to face the face that people dont talk or act like Edward. To me he represents the old. Which would be due to the time period that he was born and raised.
Would Jacob look like such a bad guy to Team Edward if there wasn't an Edward to compete with?
Is Jacob just a normal modern day guy?

Well I hope there are a couple people who can make sense of my rambling to answer me.      ??   ??

[Queen Bella]

Jacob wouldn't be so obnoxious if he didn't have an Edward to be compaired to. I didn't think twice of him in Twilight...just a minor side character that happened to be a family friend...nothing much. I was shocked and upset when she used him to try and replace Edward, because in our minds Edward's charm is from an older time mixed with style from today, perfect. If I had to look at Jacob and Edward as characters soley outside of the story line, I would still prefer Edward and I do not think I would like the saga as much. It just wouldn't be the same at all. Jacob doesn't have the mysterious charm, he wears his heart on his sleeve. Jacob isn't graceful and elegant, he's the opposite. He may be a modern man but he is not ideal. He has flaws like all men, without a doubt. Edward doesn't have any and when a flaw presents itself it is immediately resolved.  My boyfriend is more of a Jacob than an Edward...he isn't graceful and doesn't have exceptional manners. He has slightly overgrown stubble and hair to his ears thats he doesn't brush. Basically, his only trait that compairs him to Edward is that he is a composer. So, I guess I'm not really against the Jacob type seeing as how we've been together for three years, haha. But for the sake of the story, Edward is old AND new, he has elements of both based on the fact that he is still physically young, whereas Jacob is just plain young. Edward has been around long enough to develop his personality fully and know how to act. He has wisdom that can only come with age. Jacob is still immature, and he will still be more immature than an Edward type at 30, because Edward will always have time on his side. I hope THAT made sense

[Bella74661]

i know this may sound shocking, but i most likely wouldnt have read it if there weren't a vampire in this love story (i shiver with misery at the thought of what stephenie might have written about if her dream had been about a werewolf and a girl in a meadow, instead of a vampire and a girl, i mean, i really am not a fan of werewolf books. and i mean it, i didnt like werewolves even before twilight, ive ALWAYS been a big vampire fan.)this story just wouldnt have been right without some kind of vampire figure fighting for Bella's love. i mean, i just cant see anyone being better paired with Bella than Edward, and frankly, if stephenie had written an alternate series about jacob being the one to win, i wouldnt open it. (sorry, but Edward is always going to be the eternally perfect one for Bella, and i would add something else, but it has to do with the 4th book and i dont want to spoil anything.)

[parkveiw101]

yeahh same here
at first when one of my friends started to read Twilight i told her after she told me what it was about "That is so stupid!" now, i hate myself for ever saying that after I read all 4.
and yeahh i know what you are talking aout in Breaking Dawn

[Claire]

Topaz, I like the questions and the points you raise about comparing Jacob to Edward...I agree, in many ways he would be seen as an average guy and not a bad one for Bella without an Edward to compare him to. 

Queen Bella, you give an excellent summary on why Edward is such a difficult standard to live up to!

[*Evelyne*]

I personally think that no one would have a problem with Jacob if there wasn't a comparison between him and Edward.  Jacob is a funny, sensitive character in a very different style than Edward is . Take them separatly and I'd take a Jacob anyday but  as Stephenie clearly explains it in the book  Jacob can fight the clouds and but not an eclipse.

Edward character just lets the reader dream about a PERFECT mysterious, over-protective, chivalrous stranger falling for you in a way that is just well... inhuman

Jacob becomes the human side of the story, funny and annoying. just not equipped to compete with incarnated perfection ...

Love you Jake sorry , but I'd make the same choice as Bella  anyday

[sparkling]

  My biggest problem with Jake is the fact that he doesn't take no for an answer.  Yes, in some respects, Bella is a little selfish in the way that she clings to Jake as she tries to manage without Edward.  Especially, in the beginning.  But, I think a punch in the face says it all and the fact that it didn't seem to phase him really bugged me.  It's very uncool to make a play for another man's woman, even if they are only BF/GF.  THAT is a big reason why I don't care for Jake much.  I forgave him (mostly) in BD but I'm still not a big fan.
  If he was really so 'in love' with Bella, he could have been a little nicer to her and not fought with her so much.  He said a lot of hurtful things to her that, even if he was right, showed how much he didn't deserve her.  He's young and immature and doesn't think before he speaks.  I think if those 2 had ended up together, they would've fought constantly because he just blurts things out and Bella is entirely too stubborn.
  Edward doesn't really help Jake look any better. (Edward makes nearly all males look bad! lol )  Jake is only human (partially! lol) and he does really love Bella but he just can't compete with Edward.  No one can.  Edward has had plenty of time to develop an insane amount of patience and maturity that would be impossible for anyone else to mimic.  He is perfect for Bella in this way because her stubborn attitude and temper do not phase him.  He responds to her sometimes strange behavior in the perfect way because his unconditional love for her allows him to do that.
  At least, that's how I see it...

[Amor Vincit Omnia]

  My biggest problem with Jake is the fact that he doesn't take no for an answer.  Yes, in some respects, Bella is a little selfish in the way that she clings to Jake as she tries to manage without Edward.  Especially, in the beginning.  But, I think a punch in the face says it all and the fact that it didn't seem to phase him really bugged me.  It's very uncool to make a play for another man's woman, even if they are only BF/GF.  THAT is a big reason why I don't care for Jake much.  I forgave him (mostly) in BD but I'm still not a big fan.
  If he was really so 'in love' with Bella, he could have been a little nicer to her and not fought with her so much.  He said a lot of hurtful things to her that, even if he was right, showed how much he didn't deserve her.  He's young and immature and doesn't think before he speaks.  I think if those 2 had ended up together, they would've fought constantly because he just blurts things out and Bella is entirely too stubborn.
  Edward doesn't really help Jake look any better. (Edward makes nearly all males look bad! lol )  Jake is only human (partially! lol) and he does really love Bella but he just can't compete with Edward.  No one can.  Edward has had plenty of time to develop an insane amount of patience and maturity that would be impossible for anyone else to mimic.  He is perfect for Bella in this way because her stubborn attitude and temper do not phase him.  He responds to her sometimes strange behavior in the perfect way because his unconditional love for her allows him to do that.
  At least, that's how I see it...

OK, this will come as a total shock to you, but I completely agree with you lol
I really liked Jacob in Twilight where he was still being so nice and respectful. Then in New Moon, ok he took care of Bella, but his constantly pushing her, that was sooo annoying! And in Eclipse, he was just obnoxious! Of course it would be hard for every guy to be compared with Edward, but come on, Jacob is just totally immature! The way he was hurting Bella by forcing her to choose between him and Edward just wasn't right! And the part where he tricked Bella into kissing him? How could he? Correct me if I'm wrong, but for me, the only positive things about Jacob were his sense of humor and his being there for Bella when she needed him, but where did these character traits go? And I thought too that a punch in the face says it all! lol Forgave him mostly in BD, because he seemed more like the Jacob he had been before Edward left, but I'm still no big fan either! Just my opinion lol

[maria#1fanpire]

Eventhough I am and will always be a diehard Team Edward supporter I always really like Jacob he was so sweet in Twilight and I love how he stepped up and took care of Bella in New Moon. He's was bellas best friend and the only one she could talk to about Edward. Everyone seems to think that Jacob was so obnoxious and immature. But everyone seems to forget that Jakes a teenage boy and is really going through a difficult time especially in eclipse. He loses Bella to the one thing he loathed and knows he'll never get her back and not to mention dealing with the fact of being a werewolf and trying to accept hisself. How many other guys his age could handle that. Of course we can constantly say how horrible jake is compared to edward. Edward has had 100 years to grow up and be mature kind and a attentive boyfriend he's essentially the perfect guy and we really can't compare jake to him he's just 16. Lest give the kid sometime to grow up. LOL

[Claire]

Sparkling, you said this so well.  Edward loves Bella unconditionally.  He would have given her up if she chose Jacob over him and he tried to give her up in New Moon because her safety was more more important to him than his own need for her.  Jacob would do neither of those things.  And he did say hurtful things to her throughout the series...in Eclipse, he said that he would rather see her dead than be with Edward - for one.

  My biggest problem with Jake is the fact that he doesn't take no for an answer.  Yes, in some respects, Bella is a little selfish in the way that she clings to Jake as she tries to manage without Edward.  Especially, in the beginning.  But, I think a punch in the face says it all and the fact that it didn't seem to phase him really bugged me.  It's very uncool to make a play for another man's woman, even if they are only BF/GF.  THAT is a big reason why I don't care for Jake much.  I forgave him (mostly) in BD but I'm still not a big fan.
  If he was really so 'in love' with Bella, he could have been a little nicer to her and not fought with her so much.  He said a lot of hurtful things to her that, even if he was right, showed how much he didn't deserve her.  He's young and immature and doesn't think before he speaks.  I think if those 2 had ended up together, they would've fought constantly because he just blurts things out and Bella is entirely too stubborn.
  Edward doesn't really help Jake look any better. (Edward makes nearly all males look bad! lol )  Jake is only human (partially! lol) and he does really love Bella but he just can't compete with Edward.  No one can.  Edward has had plenty of time to develop an insane amount of patience and maturity that would be impossible for anyone else to mimic.  He is perfect for Bella in this way because her stubborn attitude and temper do not phase him.  He responds to her sometimes strange behavior in the perfect way because his unconditional love for her allows him to do that.
  At least, that's how I see it...

[Amor Vincit Omnia]

Eventhough I am and will always be a diehard Team Edward supporter I always really like Jacob he was so sweet in Twilight and I love how he stepped up and took care of Bella in New Moon. He's was bellas best friend and the only one she could talk to about Edward. Everyone seems to think that Jacob was so obnoxious and immature. But everyone seems to forget that Jakes a teenage boy and is really going through a difficult time especially in eclipse. He loses Bella to the one thing he loathed and knows he'll never get her back and not to mention dealing with the fact of being a werewolf and trying to accept hisself. How many other guys his age could handle that. Of course we can constantly say how horrible jake is compared to edward. Edward has had 100 years to grow up and be mature kind and a attentive boyfriend he's essentially the perfect guy and we really can't compare jake to him he's just 16. Lest give the kid sometime to grow up. LOL

Yeah, you're right, but even if I compare him to Mike Newton or any other of the 'normal' guys, Jacob still acts totally immature. And going through this whole werewolf thing is difficult, but only look at how well Seth or the others manage this, so I don't think that he has any excuses there for acting so mean.

[sparkling]

 Yes, (surprise!)  I agree.  Even Mike sometimes thinks before he speaks! lol He didn't like Edward one bit but, for the most part, he kept his thoughts to himself because he knew it wasn't right to say the things he might have been thinking.
  Sure, Jake turning into a wolf was very difficult but that's no reason to take it out on your best friend.  Bella would've been there for him, as a friend, if he would've allowed her to be--regardless of what he could or couldn't tell her.
  Plus, Bella warned Jake more than once that she didn't feel the same way.  Partly because she knew she didn't have a right to stake any kind of claim on him and partly because she knew the way that she was clinging to him and using his attention to help her feel better, or feel anything at all, was wrong and completely unfair to him.
  Oh, and I disagree with maria.  I don't think he lost Bella to the one thing he loathed.  You cannot lose what you never really had to begin with...

[Amor Vincit Omnia]

Yes, (surprise!)  I agree.  Even Mike sometimes thinks before he speaks! lol He didn't like Edward one bit but, for the most part, he kept his thoughts to himself because he knew it wasn't right to say the things he might have been thinking.
  Sure, Jake turning into a wolf was very difficult but that's no reason to take it out on your best friend.  Bella would've been there for him, as a friend, if he would've allowed her to be--regardless of what he could or couldn't tell her.
  Plus, Bella warned Jake more than once that she didn't feel the same way.  Partly because she knew she didn't have a right to stake any kind of claim on him and partly because she knew the way that she was clinging to him and using his attention to help her feel better, or feel anything at all, was wrong and completely unfair to him.
  Oh, and I disagree with maria.  I don't think he lost Bella to the one thing he loathed.  You cannot lose what you never really had to begin with...

Totally agree with you! How could he loose Bella? They never got together! And I just don't get it! How many people accuse Edward of stalking Bella and everything, but Jacob is allowed to do that? Plus Bella wanted Edward to be so clingy lol!
And I don't even think that Jacob really loathes the vamps, I think for the most part he is just jealous!

[sparkling]

  Yeah, I'm sure he is pretty jealous.  I think that has a lot to do with why he lashes out at Bella sometimes.  Maybe one reason why he says the hurtful things that he does.
  When she told him she didn't feel the same way, he could have backed off a little and just waited in the wings to see what happened instead of pushing her all the time.  I don't think it helped matters.  A gentleman, someone who truly loved her (EDWARD) would've let her make her own decision, not forced the issue and been patient.
  But hey, that's just my delusional view...

[yanjan3]

IMO, Jacob does look a little childish when he is compared with Edward.. (come on! how can you compete with someone so perfect?)
Well, considering he's a teenager and Edward's 108-ish (I think), well, Edward is bound to be more mature..

But I think Jacob handled it pretty well, way more mature than some 16-ish guys.. Jacob is very expressive but he still gives Bella the right to her decisions, even the decisions which hurt him.. I think the reason he was a bit pushy is because he knew she was in love with him and was struggling to let her see that...

and well, Jacob loves Bella his way.. He isn't capable of loving with the same magnitude as Edward (pointed out in BD)... like he cant physically hold the same amount of love..

so basically, I think that he comes up a little lacking because he is constantly compared to Edward...

don't get me wrong I'm all for "Edward and Bella forever"
but I just want to stand up for Jacob cause I think he's a great guy
I love him too, although not as much as I love Edward